Best of PART I | ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL | A Conversation with Lauren Davis

It’s our anniversary, and we’re turning the mic inward.

In this special episode of Beneath the Busy, our Producer and Editor Toto sat down with our host Lauren Davis, for a raw, honest conversation about her own journey. Beyond the podcasting, Lauren shares her personal experiences, the moments that shaped her, and what it truly means to lead with authenticity in both life and work.

Burnout doesn’t always arrive with a dramatic crash. Sometimes it shows up as “I’m fine” while you keep delivering, keep people-pleasing, and keep proving yourself until your nervous system has had enough. We share a best-of clip from our anniversary conversation with Lauren that gets uncomfortably honest and brilliantly practical about what changes after you step back from work and decide you’re not going back to the same old patterns.

We dig into the moment-to-moment choices that quietly rebuild (or wreck) your wellbeing: why you say yes, why you work late, and what you are really chasing when you feel hustled. Lauren challenges the belief that deadlines are sacred and reframes boundaries as risk management, not laziness. If you keep doing it all, the system learns you can do it all. Sometimes the healthiest move is admitting you will not meet the deadline and letting leadership feel the pressure your body has been carrying.

We also explore workplace culture through a generational lens: why younger workers are less willing to “sell their souls” to a job, how companies can earn genuine commitment, and what makes discretionary effort sustainable. That leads into mental health days, recovery time, and the crucial point that wellbeing policies fail when leaders do not model them. Finally, we talk about HR as the “marshmallow layer”, the hidden toll of compassion fatigue, and why support, coaching, and community are non-negotiable if you want to lead well.

If this resonates, share it with someone who’s running on empty, and subscribe so you don’t miss what’s coming next. Leave us a review and tell us: what boundary would make the biggest difference to your week?

Thanks for listening!
If you’re ready to take this further, here are a few ways to connect or go deeper:

Lauren's online course:

https://www.ljdwellbeing.com/courses/

Free Mental Health Check-in
→ Sign up here to receive a simple yet powerful resource to combat burnout and reclaim your energy.

Join Laurens Newsletter
→ Thoughtful, grounded reflections on navigating workplace pressures, supporting mental health, and leading with impact. Sign up here.

Say hi / share a takeaway
→ Connect with Lauren on LinkedIn.
→ Message Lauren's Team directly here.

Work with Lauren
→ See how Lauren supports senior leaders and HR professionals in building mentally healthy teams and organisations.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Welcome And Bonus Best-Ofs

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi there, it's Toito again. Thank you so much for tuning in for another episode. We uh have had so many questions and requests after the release of our last episode. Um, in our conversation with Lauren for our anniversary special that we uh felt like putting out a couple of best offs over the next couple of weeks. Some of our favorite moments, some of your favorite moments from these two hours that we spoke with Lauren. And yeah, um we're we're really excited to share these with you. And yeah, if this sparks your interest, if this is where you're joining us, you can always go back to the main um to the main interview, that's the full two hours, which I think is still very much worth it because there's so much beautiful stuff set in there. So, yeah, enjoy these next couple of weeks. We're gonna have some special bonus content for you before the start of our next season, season three, which is gonna be very, very special with lots of amazing guests and collaborators. So, yeah, enjoy until then and you'll hear from us soon.

Checking The Motive Behind Hustle

SPEAKER_00 1:08

So I'm curious the after the time that you've taken away from work and away from kind of your life in general, what are some of the things that you then changed? Maybe some of the lessons, but also especially some of the things you then incorporated into your when you went back into work and into your daily life, um, to not go back into that dirty, murky fish tank. Um because in some ways you probably did go back into the work that you were doing before. But what was different? Like what did you change?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Um, I think one is a huge vigilance around why am I doing the thing I'm doing? So am I saying yes to this piece of work? Am I working late? Um, am I whatever rushing around feeling hustled and and hurried? What is underneath that behavior? Is it because it's really necessary, because it's a busy period, and that sometimes happens? Um, or am I doing it because I'm trying to prove something? I'm trying to get the dopamine hit, the reward, the affirmation, the approval from outside. So am I striving for something external and is that why I'm doing this? Um and often people say, but I don't have a choice because my deadlines are my deadlines, or you know, my manager's telling me I have to do all of this work, and and no matter what how I

Learning To Miss Deadlines Safely

SPEAKER_01 2:25

push back, they just keep saying I have to do it all. And I hear that, and I still want to challenge that because you if you keep doing it all, then they're gonna believe that you can keep doing it all. So you're the one that is shooting yourself in the foot. So and people are like, oh, but I can't drop a ball. Again, you're not in emergency medical services. Dropping a ball does not mean somebody's gonna die. So if you don't deliver or you deliver late, well, that actually helps your leader then realize that you're not coping. But what we do is we say, I can't cope, I can't cope, my workload's too full, I'm burning out. And yet, because we push ourselves and we think we want to show that we can be a good employee, we kill ourselves to deliver.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

And all the manager sees is, oh, well, she says she's overworked, but she keeps delivering. So why should I pull back? Yeah, it can't be that bad. And so we have to be okay with failing, I suppose. We have to be okay with saying, I'm not gonna meet that deadline. And and let the management feel some of the pressure of that. Um and not then, and that's where it's like not then linking your worth to that and saying, Oh, but now I'm a failure. It's not. You are managing a system and you're managing your health. Um, and so often I say to people, it's actually a business risk to keep pushing through and to keep delivering because you're gonna collapse. And then what? So you're trying to be so um available and so needed and show how amazing you are. But when you have when you collapse and you have to be booked off for six months, yeah, then you're actually putting the business more at risk as opposed to pulling back and saying, This is all I can do.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So it's like a more the approach we're currently using is more acute and kind of short-sighted, it sounds, what you're describing. But we're actually and we're we're doing that thinking, we're helping everyone in the company, and we're uh everyone's gaining from our work, but really it's uh yeah, it's like you said, it's like the risk is much higher than accepting uh our not even our faults, but our just different levels of capacity,

Leaders Feel The Same Pressure

SPEAKER_00 4:43

I guess. Um and what you're describing, I think now you we were talking about more about the the the workers and the people kind of like on the foundation of a company, but the same goes for the leaders, right? In the HRs, like they they struggle with the same pressure for deadlines, even if you're at the top of the like quote unquote pyramid um of a company and you maybe are the person that everyone is answering to. In a weird way, at when you're at that position, I always think it reverses the pyramid because you are responsible for for it standing on the foundation and you need to keep it running. So you're answering also to yeah, like you said before earlier, um, you're answering to yourself essentially, and and when you're in that position, which is also like a huge amount of pressure. Um and so uh yeah, I was gonna ask what what do you think with people that you have worked with that that weren't pushed as far and were maybe were more willing to get help earlier or um consult either friends or like yourself, people like yourself, um what do you think is what's the what's the difference? Like is it a generational thing that people are more willing to um to get help and at an earlier point or is it uh is it a sense of like your community or so your surroundings or what what what has been your experience like? Um I'm the reason I'm asking is because I'm I'm wondering how can we get people to the point where they can create where they exactly essentially don't need you. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

You want to get rid of it be out of a job, nice exactly.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Um I think that should be every therapist's goal, you know? Like um what what can we what can I do to make as like I'm speaking it from a therapist's perspective, like what can I do so that you can help yourself so that you you Absolutely I think that could that would be the biggest goal.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Um but yeah, what what are your thoughts on that?

Generations And The New Work Deal

SPEAKER_01 6:44

You said something about the generation, so I'm just thinking, I mean, I'll start there because I think there is definitely a generational difference that and I know the millennials get such a bad rap, and for me, actually, like your gen it's an amazing generation because there is this awareness of I'm not going to kill myself for my job, but that doesn't make people lazy, entitled, uh, what what did I hear today? Soft. They've never had a hardship in their life. Yeah. I mean, the reality is you're growing up in a world that is you grew up and you're adulting in a world that is very harsh and and collapsing in every level, so you do know hardship, but but you're not prepared to sacrifice your whole being for work. And I think that is the main shift from what they say Gen X to the millennials. And the Gen X's and above just don't understand it because we sold our souls to work, and we sacrificed everything for it, and we were rewarded and we were applauded, um, and that's the narrative. And I think the younger generations are coming in and shifting it.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Which is, I think, very interesting that you just mentioned you were rewarded and applauded, but the generation that is come out like out like of that generation, are you responsible for that generation, right? They are you children, exactly. Like figuratively speaking, but also literally speaking. And I think that's always very interesting when I have conversations with people that are older than me, or from like the generation before me or generation X is like I always think Yeah, but like maybe that worked within the system. You were you had your rewards and it and and you had success. But look at the generation that came out of that. You're responsible just as much as I'm responsible for the generation generation after me. And um we we can't detach each other like ourselves from each other, you know. That's not and the fact that we are taking the steps, or my generation is taking the steps that that they are to to be more healthy, to be more like mentally maybe aware or physically more healthy, whatever it is, is a direct result of us observing another generation, you know. It's not because we pick it out of thin air and we realize oh, we want to do something different. It's because of our lived experience, because of our parents that we witness and our grandparents. And so, yeah, like I think I very much agree.

Beyond Burnout Course Invitation

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Let's pause here for a second. If you're listening to this while running on empty, pushing through, holding it all together, and still feeling wiped out, then this next bit's for you. I want to tell you that you're not broken, it's not an inherent flaw. It's most likely you're experiencing a level of burnout. And there's a real difference. That's why I created this course called Beyond Burnout: Shifting from Surviving to Thriving. It's a self-paced online course for people who are done with pretending that they're fine. In it, you'll learn what's really burning you out. And let me tell you, it's hardly ever your schedule. You'll learn how to set boundaries that hold under pressure, how to manage stress in ways that fit into your life, and how to build resilience. That doesn't mean pushing harder, but it's about making more room to recover. This isn't about adding more to your already overbooked schedule. It's about offering you an opportunity to reset. So if this sounds like something you need, the link is in the show notes. Enroll now and take the first step towards building a life that really supports you.

Building Cultures That Let People Rest

SPEAKER_01 10:24

So for me, I'm I'm kind of excited for when kind of the 20 to th early 30-year-olds start getting into the senior leadership positions because I think that's truly when we'll start seeing a shift. Um, at the moment, I think the the senior leadership is still too much of my generation, and it's too much. Got to work at all costs, work is most important, you know, work ethic is everything. And that all, you know, we still so inculcated from the Calvinistic era where hard work was like the moral fortitude. You know, you're a good, virtuous person when you worked hard, and and that's it's shifting, and it's it's saying, well, the impact of that way of being is that we have actually ruined everything because all we've done is worked and and the the consequences have been devastating. Yeah. So I think, yes, I think the next generation is much more prepared and willing and open to preventative. So let's not get there. I don't want to sit around the dinner table like my father and mother did and complain about work and be exhausted and have no time for my children. I don't want to do that. So how do I prevent it? And so when I coach new leaders or younger leaders, they're, I think, well, it's still early to tell, but I don't think that they're heading for a crash. They're slow, I'm having to undo a lot of deep ambition and drive and that connection to worth and you know, that same psychology is there, but they're still they're much younger, so it hasn't calcified into a way of being with work. Um, so there's definitely a much bigger openness and much less of an attachment to to a job, to a company, to a career. Because as you said earlier, it's the world they're so much more aware of this fluidity of this world and how quickly, I mean, things change all the time. So they're not bedded and they don't don't feel this deep sense of loyalty. And I think that that scares a lot of older generations, especially if you're a leader in an organization. But but the shift has to be to say, okay, we're gonna get this person maximum three to four years in our in our team. How do we extract the best out of them? Not in a kind of uh abusive way, but that means you've got to take care of them, we've got to understand how they tick, we've got to, you know, help them be the best resourced so that for that period we get the best of them. Yeah. And then we prepare them for their next, and then we'll get another one.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Exact exactly. It's like how how do we offer an environment that makes it worth their while? Yeah. And vice versa. Absolutely. It's it goes both both ways for sure. But I think a lot of companies don't yeah, a lot of companies don't worry about or like think about like what kind of environment they create um for whatever reason, maybe because they know they always get someone else or someone new. But that's I think that's that's a really good point. Because even if there's big influx at a company and people come and go at a frequent rate, ideally you want to create a uh a structure for the workers and an environment for for kind of like the bottom-up communication that is that is worth their while and interesting for them to stay as long as as they like, you know. And I think if it is if it is a uh an environment in a system that is uh that is healthy, you know, quote it's like a big word, but that kind of contains everything we've been sp we've been speaking about. But if it is healthy in that way, it is just much more likely for people to stay longer and hanging around for nine hours a day and kind of spending two or three hours actually doing something um or just doing the work that they're supposed to and then maybe going above and beyond because they believe in it. And then we're back at the Gen X kind of argument of like, oh but we're we're giving everything, we give we're going above and beyond. And um then it's like it it goes, it's stepping out of the conversation of I'm going past my capacity, but I'm going more in because I believe it and I like doing it, you know? Like very much, like I can very much speak for myself that like when I've worked on projects and on on jobs that I like, I can work for 14 hours and I feel strong and healthy after. Um and I had an amazing day and I barely ate and drank and had no breaks, but I just believed in this net. It's like a fuel and you can't that every day, you can't do that every day for the rest of your life. But there can be moments like that where you really, you know, like maybe there's a deadline or a project that you just love um because the the company has created an environment for you where you can do that and you feel you still feel supported, you know. I think the difference is what I'm getting at is if you if it comes from within yourself because you have you burn for something or you believe in a certain um aspect of your work, then you have more capacity to go harder and longer. But you can only do that if you know that you can also then you you you can fall back on a system that had that has your back after that moment. And you can maybe take a day off, or people then see that you you're recognized for the sprint, you know, that you mentioned that you did, and then you can take a rest before you start walking again or running again.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Absolutely. And I think that's it, it is about saying when people are committed and engaged, when they feel safe, when they know that the workload is reasonable, they will push. And and especially, you know, this thing of like the younger generation's lazy, it's I've I haven't come across one lazy 20-year-old. Like the the ability, as you say, to work 14, 15 hour days, like not stop until they they're done, is there. But it has to be for a cause they believe in, it has to be because they feel supported and because they know they can rest afterwards. And and I think that's what we're missing at the moment. We want that, we call that the discretionary effort, we want that from people, but we're not giving them the pause and the rest and and the recovery. It's like you do that, and then there's your next, and there's your next.

Mental Health Days That Work

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Um, and so some of the companies I work with that are, you know, really, really back themselves and aren't just well-being washing, that they really are looking at the culture of well-being, you know, they they talk about or they allow mental health days, which I love. I mean, since my child started going to school, I give him he's allowed one mental health day a term, which he doesn't have to be sick. He doesn't have to lie to me that he's sick. It's just like I just can't today. I just cannot face the world. I'm just putting my do that over my my head. And I don't question him and I don't I'll often say if he does it in the first week or two of term, like, are you sure? Because this is your day. You know, this is your only one. But but again, I think if you give your your staff once a quarter, I mean I'd love it once a month, uh a mental health day where they don't have to get a doctor's certificate, they don't have to be sick. Because people are phoning in and saying they're sick when they're not really, it's just that they can't face the day, they're just overwhelmed. We will go such a long way to prevent more of the burnout and the overwhelm. And even people falling into depression and anxiety, because if I'm feeling overwhelmed and I can I can catch it because I'm pausing and checking in with myself, and one day isn't enough, but it's just it's the culture of the company that says, okay, take that day, take it. Uh, we'll talk about uh because you're sending the the message of we can talk about it. So, okay, so you come back from your mental health day as a leader. Um I need to say, okay, so what happened? Is it a work thing? Do you need do can we support you? Yeah. Um, or if it's personal, fine. But how do we support you? Do you create this culture where you can bring that stuff and talk about it? And so, you know, again, leaders say to me, Oh, but we can't do mental health days, people take advantage of it. Why must you punish everybody? Because one or two people, if somebody's taking advantage of it, then you directly deal with it. Yeah. And most people won't. And most people, uh, I mean, when I ran that school, I also had this thing with the teachers, you can take a mental health day. I think we did it once a month, and most of them didn't take it because they had too much work to do or they didn't want to look like they were weak. That, you know, so there's most most workers will struggle to even take it. But but we want to, and I'm not saying that that's a good thing. We want them to take it. And so, so, so it's it's how do you create that that culture to say it's okay to take time off even if you're not physically sick? To put your hand up and say, I can't, I'm not coping. And and as I said, it goes back to leaders being able to be well and for them to be able to also take the time off. I get

Lead By Taking Time Off

SPEAKER_01 19:02

that so often of, you know, my company speaks and they really try hard, they speak about well-being, and they say we don't have to work after hours and we mustn't work weekends, and we can take time off, you know, to go to our doctor's appointments or watch our son's cricket match or whatever, but our leaders never do. And if you're if as a leader you're not doing it, your your team is seeing that it's actually not okay. Because if I want to be a leader, or maybe if I want to actually be respected by you, then I must keep working.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, I need to follow you. Follow you. Yeah, follow you.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

And so as a leader, you've got to lead by doing these things yourself. You know, the most important thing as a leader is to just acknowledge that and say it's hard and it's um you've got to be up for the task. You know, and I know often people get promoted into leadership because they're good at their job, or, you know, not necessarily because they want to be a leader. Majority of leaders I know just landed up there, you know, and then they're they're thinking, well, A, how did I land up here? And B, like, how do I do this thing? And so it's understanding that it's complex and that you yourself as a leader needs the support. So even in companies that are very open to taking care of their employees' mental health, there's often a thing of yes, that they need it, you know, let's do something for the staff, let's do something for my team. And there's this expectation that as a leader, I'm fine or I should be fine, I should have it all together. And I think part of it for lead for leaders is to just acknowledge you're also human, you're also an employee of the company and you're also under even more pressure and stress. So when when there's opportunities for well-being stuff, you need to take it for yourself too. And sometimes if there's limited budget, I've pushed some leaders to say, rather use this on yourself. Yeah. Let's rather give you some coaching, because what we said earlier, the ripple effect is huge. And it's not about being selfish. It's again that putting the oxygen mask on yourself.

HR Support And Compassion Fatigue

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Um and it's the same with HR. So I think HR professionals have an equally complex and hard job. And I think you mentioned it earlier, the complexities of being there for the employees, but also having to be there for the business. And I often call them the marshmallow layer. You know, they like cushioning from above and below and all sides. And for HR, it's also about saying you're also an employee. You know, always say who's HR for HR? Like, where do you go? And so you've got to be HR for yourself. And again, if there's limited budget, like you can spend some of it on yourself, either for your own coaching or what I offer is uh um reflective groups practices or supervision for groups of HR professionals where you can come together and and just share some of the heaviness of your load, um, explore some of the complexities of of the work that you're dealing with, because so much of what you do is confidential. And so it's real. That to be a good leader or a good HR professional, you cannot do it alone or in isolation. You have to do it within a community. You need support, and that doesn't mean you're weak. That actually means that you're you're so you're aware of your capacity and that you're doing something to support yourself. And then just lastly on that, I suppose what what many leaders in HR professionals are are experiencing, and it's not spoken of because we just don't know about it in the organizational space, is a kind of burnout called compassion fatigue. And obviously, as as healthcare professionals, we know a lot about that. And as a, you know, when I was studying for my clinical masters, we were taught a lot about how to recognize it in ourselves and what to do to prevent it. Um, but as leaders in HR professionals, you know, you're in caring professions too, but nobody's told you how do you care in a healthy way. And so compassion fatigue is a for a particular form of burnout where you actually just lose the ability to care.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

We we've you've stopped making space for yourself, essentially. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

But but the what the how that converts in behavior is you literally just have no capacity to care for the people around you. Um and I know when I've kind of when I've boarded on that at my son, it's sometimes in my head, I'll I'll think, can you just take a teaspoon of cement and hard enough? Like we've all got it tough. You know, why it's just stop crying kind of thing. And I know some leaders and HR professionals have have obviously very under clouds of shame admitted that to me. And it shouldn't be because you're a human. You're gonna run out of capacity to care if you don't care for yourself. And so again, you can't do it in isolation. And I think it's it's saying to leaders and HR professionals, you are part of the organization, you're also an employee, you also need to be on the receiving end of all well-being and wellness initiatives. Um, and if there's not a huge amount of budget, rather spend it on yourself. And I know that feels so counterculture, but your employees will benefit far more than if you run a workshop for them or offer them extra perks. Um the biggest impact will be on yourself because I always say you have to be well to lead well.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah. That's a beautiful way to end it.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Exclamation markful stuff. Yes.

Where To Find Lauren’s Work

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Hi there, this is Toto. I'm the producer and editor here at LJD Headquarters and Beneath the Busy. And I just wanted to leave you with a quick note before you head out into the rest of your day or your week. If you also want to get some more information on Lauren and dive into her work further, which I highly recommend, you can find her at ljdwellbeing.com or LJD Wellbeing on YouTube and Beneath the Busy Podcast on Instagram. Aside from the keynotes and workshops that Lauren's doing, and also the one-on-one coachings for leaders in HR, there's an array of online courses and a free mental health masterclass that you can find on our website as well. Again, that's ljdwellbeing.com.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

And as always, please remember it's okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to stay that way. You are not alone, help is available, and please be gentle and kind with yourself and others. Thanks for listening. Until next time, take care of